4 Types of Leaders: The Liberating Leader - A Leader Worth Following | e85

4 Types of Leaders: The Liberating Leader Fighting for the Highest Good of Others 
 Chris Wood: [00:00:00] Hey Jason, welcome back to Leading a Serving Podcast. 
 Jason Kempf: Hey, Chris. Good to see you today. 
 Chris Wood: Good to see you too. Yeah. How's life? 
 Jason Kempf: Oh, it's it's great. Yeah. Always right. Oh, okay. 
 Chris Wood: Now you can be real with me. 
 Jason Kempf: Okay. We we've got some sickness in the house. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, we've, it was, it was a long weekend and you know, yeah. 
 When you got plenty of kids and you're into foster care and you know, it's, oh, it's a fun day. Yeah. But no, we're on the up and up, we're improving. And so, hey, I'm happy with that. And yeah, we're. We're in good shape. Yeah. 
 Chris Wood: The whole good shape, the whole process of moving it out of the house is kind of a, it is a bit of a process, 
 isn't it? 
 Jason Kempf: Which kind of stinks because it was like amazingly beautiful weekend. It was. And man, we just, yeah. I mean, we gotta sit on the deck a little bit, but Right. Just breathe Right. 
 Chris Wood: And the weather's only getting warmer, right. Because we're walking into summer and that's exciting. Yeah. It's starting 
 to get to that point where it hot. 
 Jason Kempf: I, I'm annoyed by hot. Oh. And so [00:01:00] it's almost on that point. Oh, we're, I'm starting to get annoyed here and there. 
 Chris Wood: So yeah, you, you need an, you need an outdoor hobby, like a motorcycle man. You could just go for a ride. Enjoy. 
 Jason Kempf: I fly north for the summer. That's what I do. Okay. Anyway, so everything good with you? 
 Chris Wood: Yeah, everything's good. Just. Trying to keep up with the changes that are happening. You know, it's, it's one of those things where, you know, when you're in business, change is inevitable. Is it not? 
 Jason Kempf: Oh man. You step up to plate to hit a fastball. Yeah. And it's not a fastball. No. 
 Chris Wood: Especially when like everything around you said it was a fastball, like Right, right. 
 Like all for all intents and purpose. Totally. Should have been a fast ball. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, just change is happening and it's. You know, it's, I'm learning. I'm learning. 
 Jason Kempf: Very good, very good. Well, that's what this is about. So we want to encourage leaders, we wanna encourage entrepreneurs and just to keep learning, to keep working down that road because, you know, when we pour into ourselves as leaders, we're able to pour into others and, and lead really well and to serve well. 
 [00:02:00] And so that's what we're about. Yes. That's good. I like it. So, yeah. Real quick, jump over to Leading and serving.com. We would love to hear from you. We'd love to hear your thoughts on topics. If there's anything coming up that you're like, man, I wish they'd talk about this, wouldn't that be great having Yeah. 
 You know, shoot us a message. Yeah. Send us a voicemail. We would love, hear you appreciate this. If you wanna support the podcast in some way, we would love to hear from you. Yeah. So but yeah, we're gonna finish up our series today on the four types of leaders. Okay. And you know, I'm, you might be sitting there going, wait, I'm gonna do the math. 
 Let's see. We only had two previous episodes and we're gonna finish it up today on the four types of leaders. Yeah. Doesn't quite happen. We're gonna cover two today. Okay. Because the third type of leader Yep. Is the abdicating leader. Okay. We've been talking about the protecting leader. Mm-hmm. That is all about support. 
 Okay. They, they bring all types of support to their team, whether it's relational or resource or, you know, they give you all the trust in the world. Mm-hmm. But the other side of the coin is the challenge part. Yeah. [00:03:00] And we've talked about the do dominating leader that brings so much challenge, forgets the support side, that it just becomes this dominating challenge, expectation deadline task. 
 I mean, it's, it, it turns ugly. Mm-hmm. And both of those quadrants and you're like, oh, well I then I want to be one or the other. No. Both of these quadrants aren't the best quadrant to be in. Right. Okay. The third quadrant is the abdicating leader, where you just don't support and you don't challenge. 
 You're just there. Sometimes it's the leader that's just kind of checked out. Yeah. Is like, I don't, you know, just coming, showing up for the paycheck. It's the leader that just is like, whatever we get done, I don't care. Right. You know, there's just a sense of apathy and just, yeah. They just abdicate their role as leader. 
 To the things around them. Hmm. And you know, and so maybe it's, you know, if it's somebody in the middle of an organization, maybe they're just kind of sitting there like, I'm not getting any support or challenge from up above, [00:04:00] so just is what, it's why I don't even know what I'm supposed to leave my team on. 
 Oh, right. Yeah. And so they just abdicate as well and just like, yeah, you guys just, you were hired to do something, so do it. 
 Right. Just 
 fill your role. Right, right. And you know, like, when do I need this by? I'm not sure. I don't care. Just get it to me. Mm-hmm. You know, or, you know, so it creates this, this ambiguity of what's going on in the organization Yeah. 
 Of what's going on on your team, and when you check out, man, what happens to the rest of your team. Yeah. That's a, that's a big deal. Yeah. If it's somebody who wants to succeed, They're like, I'm outta here. Right. For sure. It'll be gone. 
 Chris Wood: Turnover's gonna definitely 
 Jason Kempf: gonna be an issue. Right. And you know, you might capture a few people that don't wanna be there either, and like, Hey, we can all collect a paycheck and do nothing. 
 Right. Sounds good to me. Right. You know, that's not what I want my business to be known as. No, for sure. And so so that's the third type of leader. Someone who just doesn't care anymore, has abdicated their role as leader and just has kind of walked [00:05:00] away. Whether it's mentally, emotionally, physically, you know, they're just like, I'm done. 
 Mm-hmm. I'm done. I don't know. I don't know what to bring here, and so I'm just Yeah. Good luck guys. Right. You know, and we definitely don't wanna be there. No, I mean that's just, that does not sound healthy. Yeah. Protective. And, you know, dominating leaders can actually justify why one of those sound good. 
 Mm-hmm. I don't think you can justify why abdicating Sounds good. Yeah. 
 Chris Wood: So, Yeah. That'd be an interesting conversation with an, with that leader. 
 Jason Kempf: Yeah. So the fourth quadrant though, that is the place that we want to be because that is a quadrant of liberation. So it's the type of leader who comes in and liberates their team to do amazing things. 
 They become, you know, that's where the the old adage of you know, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole, right? Mm-hmm. And so that's when a leader comes in and creates a team and creates a synergy, a motion within it that is just freeing. And the way that happens is that you have to learn to bring a healthy balance of both [00:06:00] support. 
 Mm-hmm. Like that protective side and challenge. Okay. That you find a healthy way to bring communication in both those areas. Okay. Okay. So the healthy communication would be in terms of what deadlines? Mm-hmm. Of expectations. Mm-hmm. Of budget, of resources. You know, here's, here's what you have to get your job done well, here are the limits that you have. 
 Here are the boundaries. This is when it needs to be done, and who you're working with. I mean, there's, there's a clarity of communication there that doesn't cross that dominating line. Mm-hmm. But it's clear of saying, here's where you need to go. Right. Do you understand where you're headed? Yeah. Do you have your marching orders? 
 Here's the action items. Here's our goals, our priorities, whatever that might look like for your organization. Here's where we're headed. Mm-hmm. Are you clear on that? Yeah. Are you clear on your next steps? Mm-hmm. Okay. That is communicating healthy challenge. The other side of that is communicating healthy support of do you truly, do you trust in your people?[00:07:00] 
 Yeah. Like, okay, I need you to get somewhere in the next two weeks. Here's your marching orders, here's your goals and your priorities. Now, how do we support 'em to it? Mm-hmm. Do we truly trust 'em to get the job done, to do what they need to do to bring success to the company? The way you envision it. Yeah. 
 You know, and so that's, that's part relational, right? That you're right there with them. You're encouraging them. But it's also part resource of do you have what you need? Right. You know, yes, we have a budget, but. Do you have what you need? Mm-hmm. You know, there's, there's a little bit, there's some nuance there. 
 Yeah. Of how to really support, trust in your team and make sure that they, they understand where they're going, when they're going, how they're getting there. Mm-hmm. And that you're behind them all the way. Yeah. You know, even, you know, we talk often about failing forward. Mm-hmm. Or fail quickly. Right. You know, because failure is just an opportunity to learn. 
 Right. Right. We're creating that environment as a liberating leader. 
 Chris Wood: Where it's acceptable to fail in the [00:08:00] process of 
 Jason Kempf: growing. Yeah. That, I mean, here's the challenge set before us, but if we don't get there, I've got your back and we're gonna figure out what we're learning in the process so we can reset the expectation so that we can succeed. 
 Mm-hmm. Right. That's good. That there is no comfort in the dominating atmosphere. Mm-hmm. That it's safe to fail. Yeah. And on the protective side, it's way too safe. Yeah. Failure's almost expected because we don't give the deadlines, we don't give the expectations. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah. So how are we supporting our team? 
 How are we challenging our team? Finding that healthy balance really helps us liberate our teams, liberate our organization to be greater than the sum of our parts. Mm-hmm. 
 Chris Wood: That's good. That's real good, I think, and it's a hopefully that, you know, people listening to this, you know, we all want to be there, right? 
 We all want to be there. And, but it even that too, at some level, right? It's a process to get there. Mm-hmm. And it's, and I, I'm glad that we've done this [00:09:00] because I think that we have to recognize where we, like we talked about before we hit record, which was. We have a natural tendency to lean towards something, right? 
 Yes. In this space. Mm-hmm. And so now we understand like what is the healthiest space for us and the people we're leading. Mm-hmm. Right? Which it is that fourth leader. Right. And trying to balance that out and just knowing what our tendencies are and trying to keep eye on mm-hmm. The part that we may are not as good at. 
 Right. Right. You know what I mean? So it's like, well, we know we don't do this well, but we need to also, Recognize that it's 
 Jason Kempf: important. Right. And some of, I mean, I think all of this really kind of boils back down to communication. Hmm. Because that's what we're talking about is I'm communicating support, or I'm communicating challenge. 
 Mm-hmm. And somebody who leans to that protective side. Cuz that's me. I, I lean to the protect, but I still have expectations. Mm-hmm. I still have the idea of when and how this should be [00:10:00] get be done and what success looks like. Right. I just don't know how to communicate it. Right. Yeah. And so it's coming back to our communication practices of going, okay, you know, we think about the five voices. 
 Mm-hmm. You know, some of us are a little more prone to communicate challenge and some are a little more prone to communicate that protected. Right. The support. So how do we, how do we learn to communicate? Well across the whole spectrum of that. Right. Right. You know, because it feels uncomfortable for me to go into a conversation and be like, okay, I really want this done by Friday. 
 Mm-hmm. It feels uncomfortable. Yeah. I know it's the right thing to do. Right. But it just feels uncomfortable. Right. And so how do I get over that hump? How do I get through those conversations? Yeah. And vice versa. Well, that, that support stuff just feels like touchy-feely crap. Right. You know? Right. I don't, I don't wanna deal with that. 
 You know, but we know relationships are important. Yes. We know that we have to support people. We have to give them, you know set them up for success. 
 Chris Wood: Yeah. And if we don't [00:11:00] communicate, then we, we'll never get anywhere. Right. Right. I mean, truly, cuz you can't lay out any expectations. You can't mind reading is not a thing apparently. 
 That's, well, at least I don't know that I, I, I have found out 110% of the time. I don't do it. I have tried. I am not successful. Right. So. Right. But I'm, 
 Jason Kempf: I'm gonna agree with you. I've got a lot of sarcasm welling up within me. I'm just gonna leave it alone. But, or unless you can read your, read My Mind on it. 
 No. Yeah, 
 Chris Wood: right. That's too funny. But you know, it's like, it's like you said, it comes back to communication. That's huge. It's huge. It is. And so it's like you know, and I'm glad you brought the five voices back up because those. Individual voices lean towards, you can have a natural tendencies. You can, I can. 
 My guess is we can lean, we know what your natural tendencies are. Mm-hmm. Based on your voice, so if you're working with somebody that's not in your voice to set right, recognize that [00:12:00] Right. And, and try to prepare for yourself so that you can communicate effectively if you 
 Jason Kempf: can. Mm-hmm. Because we communicate in the way that we want to receive communication. 
 We totally do. You know, and so I've got a couple of coworkers that are very different in voice order than me. Yeah. And so I know that. I feel horrible going into the conversation going, yeah, but we need to get this done by then. That just feels blah to me. Right? Right. But I know that is their tendency. 
 Mm-hmm. In communicating. And so for me to step into that conversation and say, Hey, how about Friday? Does that sound good to you? Mm-hmm. You know, so I'll make it a little, maybe a little more shared decision. Right. Even though I'm shooting for Friday. Right. Right. You know, I'll still soften it naturally, you know, and I'm, and I'm trying to change how I communicate of saying, oh, we need this by Friday. 
 Right. No more provisional language. This needs to be done by Friday. Mm-hmm. Can you deliver? And when people are coming from that perspective, they respond, that liberates them. Mm-hmm. [00:13:00] You know, and I'm just going. I don't get it. Right. You know, that just, it, it feels weird because that's not our primary, that's not our foundational voice. 
 Right. And, you know, and same on the other side, you know, of, of that support of checking in, of, hey, you know, you got this, I can, you know, I can help you get there. What do you need along the way? I, you know, that's where I lean. Mm-hmm. And so it's easy for me to do that, but Right. And when I have a leader that doesn't do that, Man, it, it puts us at opposite ends of the spectrum. 
 Right. And I don't know if I trust that leader. Right? And so we, we have to learn to, you know, how we have to lead ourselves first, right? We've talked about that a hundred times, multiple times. Right? Right. Yeah. And then we can learn to lead our teams, lead others, right? By understanding their voice. And you're a connector. 
 I'm a creative, so I kind of know how to bring challenge to you. I know how to, you know, not, not great at it. Yeah, I still hesitate. Yeah. Because neither one of us like doing challenge. Right. And so, oh, hey. Yeah. The other day I was like, Hey man, we need to have a conversation. Neither of us wanna have Right. 
 Are you sitting [00:14:00] down? You know? Right. You know, and so you sit down, you have the conversation and you walk away and go, oh, that wasn't that bad. Right, right. So yeah. Hone your communication. Yep. And if you haven't had a chance you can look back in the archives of the podcast. There's descriptions of the five voices in some of our episodes. 
 Yeah. In the show notes, there's a link to go in. Take the free assessment. Yeah. There's also an assessment with that same assessment, but you can unlock a pro results with some more information behind it. But it's good 
 Chris Wood: stuff. It is, it's real good stuff, and it's, it is so key to communicating properly, right? 
 I mean, like, this isn't just something that. Man, I just can't get over how important this part is. Like Yeah. And how effective it is to be able to communicate this way. Mm-hmm. Like, spend your time on that communication key because Yeah. It is a nonstop 
 Jason Kempf: evolving thing. Right. And that if you can take it to the next level of having that shared language throughout the entire team and organization mm-hmm. 
 You know, I, you know, other people that, [00:15:00] that I work with that are deep in five voices as well and understand what's going on. I even use that phrase like, Hey, I need to bring some challenge. Are you ready for that? Mm-hmm. And they know exactly what I mean. Yeah. You know, because it's a shared common language and they're like, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm good. 
 Go, go, go for it. Mm-hmm. Or let me finish this and then I'll, you know, I'll have space in my head for this, you know? Yeah. Right. Which is good. It, it totally sets up new ways of communicating that you have that shared language just makes it more efficient and mm-hmm. Less misunderstanding. Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness. 
 Imagine that. Ugh. The better we communicate, the fewer misunderstandings, what would that change? Business? Oh 
 Chris Wood: my goodness. That'd be amazing. Yes, it would. Because I mean, inevitably like if, and I feel like if we can curb just like 50% of it, like man, just so much further ahead. Right. So much further 
 Jason Kempf: ahead. 
 Well, teacher team as well. Yeah. I mean, if, if they're in five voices, they understand their voice. Mm-hmm. And they know which one you are. Yeah. And when, you [00:16:00] know, if you're stressed, if your buttons are being pushed and you're coming across as a dominating leader, and they're like, what is going on? Right. 
 You know, they can, they can understand like, oh, oh, well, if he's such and such voice and. Oh, I didn't know about this. Okay, I get it. Mm-hmm. I understand why this is coming across a little different today. Right. You know, and helps us gain consisting, but it gives us perspective as well. Yep. Because everything going on in our lives affects how we do business. 
 Yeah. And 
 Chris Wood: relate to our team. And for unfortunately, we're in somewhat stressful times for many people. Like it's just the stress of life is, is. Yes. With the, with the many things that are going on with the world. Yeah. Is life is a little bit more stressful, a little bit heavier 
 Jason Kempf: for a lot of people could lead to that abdication. 
 Right? A hundred percent. Like this is this, this is screwy. I don't get this right. I don't see a solution. I'm Yeah, just gonna 
 Chris Wood: check out. I'm just gonna check out. Yeah. I'm just gonna be here. Show up, pay, get a paycheck, right? 
 Jason Kempf: Yeah, right. All right, y'all. So leading is serving, right? [00:17:00] Yep. That when we serve others, we lead them well. 
 And by doing that, when we work on our communication, we learn to be that liberating leader. Mm-hmm. We learn to give healthy support, healthy challenge, not unhealthy versions. Right. But we learn to do that well with our team. Mm-hmm. And that likely looks a little bit different with each team member. Right. 
 And that's okay. Right, right. Because we all have different voices when we do that. When we become that leading, that liberating leader, you become somebody that people want to follow. Right. I mean, how many times have you had a boss that you had to follow? That I had. Yeah. That I had to follow. Yeah. Here's your supervisor. 
 You got a new job, right? You're assigned to him, you're on his team, blah, blah, blah, 
 Chris Wood: right? Oh, yeah. I don't even know how many times. Right. 
 Jason Kempf: And how many of 'em were people in the end that you really wanted to follow? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is about how do we become leaders that people want to follow? 
 Yeah. Not just they have to. Because they signed up and they signed a job, whatever. That's what they have to do. Right? Right. That, but you are somebody that inspires [00:18:00] great leaders underneath you. Oh yeah. You know that. Yeah. That'd be just absolutely wonderful. So I love that idea. Holler at us if you have questions. 
 We'd love to chat with you a little more. Follow up with us. Yeah. Leading is serving.com. 
 Chris Wood: Yeah, use the website is amazing. Yeah. All 
 Jason Kempf: the links are in the show notes. Yep. 
 Chris Wood: Sounds good. Okay. Well thanks for joining us. Thank you. And, 
 Jason Kempf: For this, enjoy, enjoy the summer and yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I know. 
 So we'll see you in the next time around. All 
 Chris Wood: right, sounds good. Bye guys.